Senator Omidvar: Thank you both for being with us today. I want to pursue the line of questioning started by Senator Frum on expatriate voting. Can you share with us what expression of attachment to Canada will be used to determine eligibility beyond simply having a Canadian passport and proof of last place of residence?

Sweden and Austria both use a formal renewable declaration in their system and this helps them build their international register of voters. Can you share with me what your proposal is to build this international register of voters?

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However, in order to be part of the register, there are a number of requirements. Under the current law international voters — that is, voters who are Canadian citizens living abroad — must have resided in Canada at some point in their life, must be abroad for no more than five years, and must have the intent to return. Essentially, it would allow people who have resided in Canada and who are Canadian citizens but are living abroad to be or remain on the international register.

We would require proof of identification, and as part of that requirement, we would require proof of citizenship in the form of a passport, which is renewable, or a birth certificate or a citizen card. Senator Omidvar: So there is a paper process. Perrault: There is a paper process. Perrault: In order to become part of the register, yes.

Once they are part of the register, we would update their whereabouts simply to make sure we can reach them in terms of sending kits for an electoral event.

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Their right to remain in the international register would not be time limited. Senator Omidvar: How would this impact first-generation Canadians living abroad? Perrault: I should mention that this is not a recommendation that came from Elections Canada. This matter is currently before the Supreme Court of Canada, challenging the current rule. Under the proposal here, Canadians would have to have resided in Canada at some point in their lifetime. If Canadians were born abroad and never in their lifetime resided in Canada, they would not be entitled to register in the International Register of Electors.

You can come for a holiday. Do you try to parse that out?

Perrault: We understand that to be ordinary residence. This is not travelling time or flying through Toronto Pearson International Airport.

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This is actually making Canada your home for a period. It does not have to be any length of period, but it has to be your residence. Senator Dawson: Thank you for your answers. It is vital that we shorten the time between the introduction of the bill and its passage, because its content needs to be implemented in time for the next election.

This seems quite urgent to me. And what about the identification of voters by third parties? Finally, since I want to leave time for other senators to ask questions, how much fraud have you heard about in the past? How many times did these people supposedly do this and how many complaints have you had during the last few elections? There was one case in the last election where a person claimed to have impersonated someone else. These matters are referred to the commissioner. The commissioner may be in a better position to speak to that.

There are rare instances of double votes, but these are treated by the commissioner. You raised the question of accessibility. Let me mention a few. The rules on level access in the act right now will be replaced by rules to make all polling places accessible, which is a much more fulsome obligation.

There are measures in the bill to allow voters and candidates with disabilities to use their personal funds or funds from their campaigns to pay for assistance in their election. This is a bill that, in many ways, tries to make the vote more inclusive. You also mentioned the problem of Indigenous voters who do not necessarily have a traditional residential address. This is a problem. That is a problem, from my point of view, because it does not allow them to vote independently. Autonomy is a very important aspect of voting. If you, as a voter, have to rely on somebody else to attest to your ability to vote, you are depriving the electorate of the dignity of voting independently.

The bill would allow those electors to use the voter information card with another piece of ID — a health card or another document — to prove not only who they are but also where they reside. That would help them to vote and to vote independently. Senator Dawson: If I understand correctly, Mr. Is that the objective of your new authority?

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This would enable us to take action more quickly in the more difficult investigations. That said, we must keep in mind that laying charges against individuals who are living out of the country is always very complicated. It can be difficult to collect evidence if, for example, the person of interest is living in St. Petersburg, or if the individual is a citizen of another country and is not coming to Canada.

We must understand that our ability to charge these individuals and bring them before Canadian courts becomes extremely limited. Senator Dawson: Thank you.

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Senator Carignan: I have some questions for you that follow on the questions my colleagues asked about voters abroad. First, I understand that Canadians living abroad who have lived in Canada can be electors and ask to be added to the voting list to exercise their right to vote. Do you know how many Canadians are living in other countries?

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I would remind you that the four Maritime provinces combined account for maybe 1. This bill would allow two million people outside Canada to exercise the right to vote. However, as the Chief Electoral Officer just said, if they make illegal contributions or if they gather together, we will not have the means to control that, and it will be rather hard to verify whether these voters are making donations with their own money or whether they are electors in good standing.

Is that right? Perrault: Allow me to make one distinction about contribution rules. At this time, Canadians can make contributions regardless of where they live. Individuals with permanent resident status can also contribute. This bill does not address contributions by Canadians living abroad. That is not actually an issue at the moment. Under the current law, only voters residing abroad for less than five years can vote.

During the last election, there were 11, such voters, but we believe that number could be as high as 30, voters in the next election. We know that, in the United States, the turnout rate of voters who are American citizens residing abroad is 0. That is not the proportion of eligible voters, but the percentage of those who vote. That is a fact. With respect to the other issue, we would have to look at evidence about what that actually means in Canada.